ThunderCats Episode 16 "Trials of Lion-O Part 2" OFFICIAL TALKBACK THREAD

[Daremonger]

"King of Thundera" does sound more appropriate.

[Tygrafan]

Originally Posted by catspat

. Tygra's humble admission, "We'd follow you anywhere, Your Majesty" proves that Lion-O does beat Tygra at his own game when Tygra realizes his kid brother makes decisions that actually work out.
[...]
I would have expected Tygra to welcome him with an embrace, but I guess he's not the emotionally demonstrative type when it comes to Lion-O, and it may be Tygra believes on some level that Lion-O is still angry at him and Cheetara.

Tygra is very self-critical, maybe this is biggest weakness. He never failed in his life, he always beat Lion-O and he was probably told many times that he would be the better king. And now he was the king and 'failed' for the first time, but instead of thinking about a plan to escape he had self-doubts in the cell.

Tygra says that Lion-O plans worked out in the end, mmmh, I think this is wrong. In the most of time his plans only worked out because somebody else have saved him or the group.

I think that Tygra leaned his lesson, he know now how much pressure is on Lion-O shoulder and that his behavior towards his brother was not always correct. I'm not the sure if this also counts for Lion-O. In Tygra's trail he learned to believe in himself and that he is doesn't need to be better than Tygra to be a great king. He wasn't in Tygra's skin, I don't know if he realized that he wasn't always fair to his brother as well. I guess I'll get the answer next saturday.

I think that Tygra would have liked to embrace his brother. Maybe he thought it's not the right situation or he was too surprised to see his brother is alive.

Originally Posted by Felinious Monk

The best aspect of this episode was finally seeing Tygra confront his own weaknesses and accept that it's no cake-walk to be a leader. But I didn't feel the episode made him out to be a chump. Instead, it made him appear more "human" (cat?) and sympathetic. His strengths and weaknesses compliment Lion-O's, and vice-versa. Hopefully this will lead them to work together more in the future, and not against one another.

I think this will happen. I would like to see the brothers working together as perfect team. I hope Lion-O will ask Tygra's advice sometimes before he will make the final decissions.

[Tygra_Rules]

Originally Posted by Tygrafan

Tygra is very self-critical, maybe this is biggest weakness. He never failed in his life, he always beat Lion-O and he was probably told many times that he would be the better king. And now he was the king and 'failed' for the first time, but instead of thinking about a plan to escape he had self-doubts in the cell.

Tygra says that Lion-O plans worked out in the end, mmmh, I think this is wrong. In the most of time his plans only worked out because somebody else have saved him or the group.

I think that Tygra leaned his lesson, he know now how much pressure is on Lion-O shoulder and that his behavior towards his brother was not always correct. I'm not the sure if this also counts for Lion-O. In Tygra's trail he learned to believe in himself and that he is doesn't need to be better than Tygra to be a great king. He wasn't in Tygra's skin, I don't know if he realized that he wasn't always fair to his brother as well. I guess I'll get the answer next saturday.

Couldn't agree more with you, Tygrafan.

This is why I keep saying the last episode was unfair to Tygra's character. And it also ****es me off that people keep saying he learned a lesson, and that Lion-o did as well. I think that's wrong. I take your quoted post paragraph by paragraph:

1. People say Tygra learned that being a king is tougher than he thought. Ok, being king is tough, but in his defense, Lion-o had 15 eps (which are supposed to be days or even months) to learn how to be a king. Tygra had only what? 20 minutes? And he did pretty well IMO.
2. I also agree whith you when you say that Lion-o's plans don't always work; he had screwed it up tons of times. Tygra saying that his plans always work at the end was just to highlight Lion-o's abilities and underrate Tygra's... a bad move from writers IMO. Also, Tygra has had many plans that worked well, like in "Into the Astral Plane".
3. Indeed, Tygra learned his lesson: being king is tough and it's easier to be overcritical. But did Lion-o learn his? Did he really put himself in Tygra's place and tried to understand and be fair to his his brother? Not to me.

As you say, we'll see what happens on Saturday.

[Daremonger]

The plot and characterization 2011 series are poorly written. If the show is to be saved, at least bring in some female writers.

[hammy0924]

Originally Posted by Daremonger

The plot and characterization 2011 series are poorly written. If the show is to be saved, at least bring in some female writers.

Could not disagree with you more. And no, I'm not talking about the female writers. HOWEVER, the last episode could have been better. IMO the next episode(s) will be better.

[Lordore]

Originally Posted by Daremonger

The plot and characterization 2011 series are poorly written. If the show is to be saved, at least bring in some female writers.

Well, J.M Dematteis is certainly a credited writer with many good works on Marvel and DC comics.His 2 episodes so far are very well written for the Thundercats

[Rizefall]

Originally Posted by catspat

Although this was a somewhat predictable episode (Lion-O must come back to life to rescue his comrades from Mumm-Ra), there were many enjoyable moments. The trials of strength and mind power were quite good, with Tygra's cute uttering of "Whiskers!" (do all Thunderian kings say that when suddenly faced with a difficult situation?). Tygra's humble admission, "We'd follow you anywhere, Your Majesty" proves that Lion-O does beat Tygra at his own game when Tygra realizes his kid brother makes decisions that actually work out. I love WilyKit using her flute to hypnotize the Lizard guards; the writers should have her use it more often, as well as have WilyKat get around to using his grappling hooks. It was good to have her leave a trail for Lion-O to follow as well as have him puzzle over the first sign until he suddenly realizes it's from Kit, although there should have been an extra scene where he's agonizing over which way to go before he finds Kit's trail. I can't say I enjoy Panthro's new Mr. Fantastic ability, as it seems like too much of a plot crutch to be believeable, as does Kit's unshakeable faith that Lion-O isn't dead. The episode doesn't show how Lion-O grabbed hold of the bird's ankles (like the bird in the maze, he probably waited until it got close enough to him while diving for river fish). Nor does it show how he slipped by the Lizard patrol outside Mumm-Ra's pyramid (probably the same strategy; he waited until they were far enough away to sneak by them and up the pyramid wall to the entrance). My favorite scene is of Kat and Kit running up to Lion-O and throwing their arms around him, and he embracing them in return; he's becoming the big brother they never had. I would have expected Tygra to welcome him with an embrace, but I guess he's not the emotionally demonstrative type when it comes to Lion-O, and it may be Tygra believes on some level that Lion-O is still angry at him and Cheetara. Like the Mutant Generals, Mumm-Ra was far too easy to defeat in this story. And I believe it may have been more fitting for Lion-O to say, "And I am King of Thundera", unless all Thunderians are referred to as ThunderCats, and not just the higher-ranking ones.

"The ThunderCats were a group of Thunderians from an unknown planet, who landed on Third Earth at the time in which Mumm-Ra the ever living was by overthrown by none other than the Thundercats themselves. The Order of the Thundercats has existed for thousands of years, and the legacy continues with the current lord of the Thundercats Lion-O, who once again will overthrow Mumm-Ra, as the Original Thundercats have done in the past"

So it seems like "Thunderians" is the race, and "Thundercats" is some kind of title, i dont mind really. Seems more like "Thundercats" are the warriors of the Thunderian race, and that "Thunderians" are ALL the cats. Before they crashed on Third Earth. (or something i dunno)

[Felinious Monk]

Originally Posted by Tygra_Rules

Couldn't agree more with you, Tygrafan.

This is why I keep saying the last episode was unfair to Tygra's character. And it also ****es me off that people keep saying he learned a lesson, and that Lion-o did as well. I think that's wrong.

For real - it's a Saturday morning cartoon designed for a demographic half our ages. Not worth getting ****ed off about.

I understand you're not happy about the outcome of the episode. But let's look at things objectively here. Both brothers had plans that worked out. Both had plans that failed. Neither is "better" than the other. We all have our character preferences, but the important thing is we all agree to enjoy the show.

Besides, Tygra still has the girl and his undefeated streak. What else is there? Heavy is the head that wears the crown.

[Sir_Sapphire]

Originally Posted by Felinious Monk

Both brothers had plans that worked out. Both had plans that failed. Neither is "better" than the other.

That's the lesson that had to be learned, by both brothers. Neither one is inherently superior or inferior to each other, they just have different strengths and weaknesses. Lion-O is brash and impulsive, but he is also good at thinking on the fly and improvising when things go wrong. Tygra is cooler-headed and (usually) better at tactics, but doesn't take failure very well and cannot improvise like Lion-O can.

Both need the other one's skills, and here's hoping that moving forward they act less like competing children with one trying to assert his authority over the other, but as co-leaders on equal footing who make the others strengths their own.

[Daremonger]

That's exactly what the brothers need.